The most empowering word is not Yes but a resounding No. In this episode, Dan McCormick interviews an expert who is all about having the courage to accept this often dreaded word. He talks with Andrea Waltz, the co-founder of Courage Crafters, Inc. and co-author of the best-selling book, Go for No! Yes is the Destination, No is How You Get There, about how to completely change the way you think about failure, rejection, and the word “no”. Dive into the world of direct selling and business as she shares her philosophy and principles that led her to success.
Listen to the podcast here:
Go For No, Your Greatest Yes With Andrea Waltz
We’ve got a very special guest. It’s going to be a blast. The great thing about Og Mandino is he had this remarkable philosophy for living, an unbelievable way of writing and a remarkable example of what it was like to truly be the greatest salesman in the world after what he went through. We’ll talk more about that later on. Welcome our friends across the pond. We welcome people north of the border. We’ve got people here from Edinburgh to Canada. We’re so thrilled that you’d be joining us here. If you’re new to the show, we’d love it if you’d go to TheGreatestSalesman.com. If you download any of the shows, you can certainly write a review. If you’re on any of the podcast sites, you can leave a review, leave comments. Feel free if you’re on Facebook or YouTube with us to leave your comments, ask questions, chime in, be part of the interview, if you will.
We hope that you can feel free to share the show if you’re on Facebook right now and certainly like, share, comment. We love it all. What I love is I get to interview some of the greatest people in the world. With us is none other than the coauthor, her and her husband, of Go for No! This iconic brand in the world of direct selling, the world of selling. She is Andrea Waltz from the fabulous Orlando, Florida. Andrea, how are you?
Dan, I am doing great.
Thank you for making the time. It is so great. Most of those that have been to the show before know that before we talk about any of that niceties of the amazing things about Og Mandino or your book is I love to dive in and say, “I’ve got you in the hot seat. I’ve got you in that Greatest Salesman chair.” I love to reach into your mind and say, what do you think are the three things that have shaped your life or each and every day of your life to lead you to this success?
I love this question. I’ve given it some thought. The first thing is definitely creativity, creation, creating. I always wanted to be a writer when I was young but I had no idea how I was going to pull that off. Luckily, my fabulous, wonderful husband and business partner figured out how we could do that together. I love the idea of taking a thought, an idea, a story, and putting it out into the world where it was never there before. Creation is definitely one of them.Each failure to sell will increase your chance to succeed at the next attempt each day. Click To Tweet
The second thing is freedom. Freedom has informed my life completely, especially for the last 25 years or almost of being an entrepreneur. I wake up every day so grateful to be in this country, first of all, even with its challenges. I’m super grateful and so believe in the life that I’ve been able to create, which is one of freedom where I get to wake up every day and say, “What do I want to do? What progress do I want to make? What actions do I want to take?” Freedom is the second one. The third one is progress. I love the saying, “Progress, not perfection.“ I wake up every day thinking, “How do I get the Go for No! message out? What interesting thing? What cool things?”
Now it’s getting to talk to you, which is awesome. Can I do to bring this message to the world? It’s making a little bit of progress on something every day. I am so far from perfect in so many areas. I’m a goal-setter but I’m not great with some of that. I have so many flaws but I do believe that if I can make a little progress in health, maybe one day in my business, maybe the next day that I’ll eventually get to where I want to be.
It’s fascinating for me. This is episode number 28 and you’re the second person that has put that as their first. Both have been female. It is awesome because it is a fascinating word, creativity. We could go back to the Bible and look at creation. We could look at everything to do with art or family, for you to write a book like Go For No! Whoever thought of three simple words like that? Go for No!, it’s a cool thing. I love it when people give thought to what those three things are.
Of course, freedom. Most of our fans, most of our readers, most of our likes and comments are going to come from those entrepreneurial, free thinking, free spirits. One of the things about the Og Mandino Company is we get to measure the thoughts of thousands of entrepreneurs. Most of them, 96%, have that free thinking spirit. They’re going to resist structure. They want freedom, if you will. That’s a great word. I love how Sharon put up that her word for the year was progress, that’s a great one. I’ve not thought about that as one of my three. I wrote down progress versus perfection and that is great stuff. Thank you so much for sharing that. What was it like that exercise? You said you enjoyed the exercise. What was it like for you?
There’s so much. As somebody who’s a student of personal development, I look at a plethora of words, attitudes, and things that have shaped my life and my day. It was challenging to bring it into three and to make sure that I covered every area of my life. I don’t know that I did perfectly but I figured good enough.
Tell us when was Go for No! first published. 2004, 2005?
We published in 2000, where it’s self-published to this day. Richard wrote it in seventeen days, basically in December of 1999. It wasn’t our first book. Go for No! was our third. We wrote two others before that. The first book we ever wrote was a fable. It was almost called Secrets of The Rag Man, which was very similar to an Og Mandino title. We changed it and we called it Unlocking the Secrets of Retail Magic. It’s about a mystical character very much like what you see in The Greatest Salesman and about a guy who learns these special lessons and all of that. That was the first one that we did.
I love the subtitle or the name that goes with it, Yes Is the Destination, No Is How You Get There. Talk to us a little bit about that.
Fundamental philosophy of what Go for No! means. Some people get it and they go, “I love it.” Some people hear it and they go, “What a horrible title. I don’t want to hear no. I want to hear yeses. Who wants to hear more nos? This is crazy. These people are lunatics.“ I thank God for the subtitle. I think it saves us a little bit because the reality is that you can’t get yes without no. Can I read this little segment? In The Greatest Salesman, it says, “I will remember the ancient laws of averages and I will bend it to my good. I will persist with the knowledge that each failure to sell will increase my chance for success at the next attempt. Each nay I hear will bring me closer to the sound of yea.”
That’s fundamentally the philosophy. It’s failure, rejection, hearing the word no is on one side success, hearing yes is on the other, and the opposite sides of the same coin. If you want to increase the yeses in your life, we’re not talking about sabotage. We’re not talking about failure for failure’s sake and doing it because you’re doing a bad job. You want to do the best possible job you can in all areas. What we are talking about is being willing and understanding that it’s part of the process.
It is interesting because I had a different challenge. When I was a nineteen-year-old young man and I’m brand new in the industry. I felt awkward taking money from people. I hadn’t bridged that as a new person in the industry now. Now, it’s no big deal. If they don’t like me than I like my products, it’s okay. There’s only 2.5 billion people on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube. It’s an interesting journey to get people to let that be something that’s part of the process.
Taking no personally is probably one of the single biggest issues that we deal with. It’s not something that we dig into with Go for No!. It’s something that I recognized after all these years of teaching it, talking to people, and seeing they do take it personally, a way down. I say this all the time. There’s no way that we together could have written Go for No! and could talk about Go for No! without ourselves having a fear of failure, rejection, and not liking the word no because we needed it as much as we love to teach it. We understand where people are coming from.
I, for sure, was a people pleaser, didn’t want to hear the word no, assumed that if somebody were to reject me, that meant that they didn’t like me, that I was on the wrong path, and I was doing something bad. I’ve done a lot of work on myself over the years to get to a place where I understand that’s not the case and discovered the secret through another book, which we can talk about later. Hearing the word, no is never personal. Even when it’s about you, it’s not about you. That’s the interesting thing.
Sherry is saying, “Hundreds of nos and all you need is one yes.” It’s interesting that one yes might pay for a child’s new dress. One yes might pay for a mortgage payment depending if you’re recruiting somebody in the world of network marketing. One yes if you’re in real estate sales, could change. There are so many keys to that one yes. I know in my life, my wife sponsored an individual that went on to become the number one distributor in the world of a multi-billion dollar company. That one yes made us millions of dollars. I can think of one phone call to somebody that said yes that’s made me millions of dollars in Santa Barbara, California. It’s a powerful thing to be okay with this and know that someone fabulous is waiting to intersect on your path. Isn’t it?
Absolutely. That’s why it’s so important not to give up because we never know where that yes is hiding. If somebody told you that there were 1,000 doors that you had to knock on and you were going to hear 999 nos but there was that 1 yes out there, you would keep going. Statistically speaking, for most of us, that’s the case. We don’t know where that yes is.
It’s fascinating because as you held up the book, I believe you were reading from scroll number three.
I have that scroll in my hand here. As I asked you like I asked all of my Greatest Salesman guests to reread the book, I wonder what it was like for you to reread the book. How long had it been since you read it in the first place?
It’s weird. When Richard and I first got together, I didn’t know anything about personal development. The very first book I ever read was Zig Ziglar’s Secrets of Closing the Sale and I loved it. We listened to the audios over and over. It was probably in the late ‘90s that I read it. I didn’t remember all that well, especially the story. I see so many quotes in the book though that I recognized because I’m such a quote lover and I will persist in all of these great quotes about failure and success. I fell in love with the story. I recognized that the thing I loved about it was that the main character is like the main character of Go for No!
He’s not this perfect person. He is debilitated with fear or failure. He’s constantly questioning like, is he going to let his master down? Is he going to be able to pull this off? All of these things. He does have the failure of giving away the rope. I think that’s what makes stories like this and fables accessible because I think we like seeing that other people are not perfect and they’re not preachy. Even the scrolls don’t come across as preachy, even though that’s where the lessons are, but I think the story hit home for me.Hearing the word 'no' is on one side hearing success. Click To Tweet
I’m with you on that. When COVID hit and I’d reach out to the Og Mandino Company, I’ve been an ambassador for several years and I have had Dave and Paul on some of my other broadcasts, 50, 60 times over the years. I went back and I reread that. I had Robert Hollis early on in the show, maybe episode number 4, 5, 6, 7, something like that. He says, “I give every single person The Greatest Miracle,“ which is what the rag picker you were given. He does that. I reread that and I was so fascinated again with Og’s writing style and that humility. Seeing imperfection in people in the parable is a treasure to see that style. Here we are talking about this book many years after it’s written. We’re talking about your book many years now after it’s written. How do you keep Go for No! relevant?
That’s a good question. There are two pieces. One piece of the relevancy is ourselves. I think using the technology to up the day, to push out the message. I sometimes feel like everybody’s Go for No. They have it. I have a lot more books I want to sell, Dan. We have not done scratched the surface on that so I have a lot more work to do on that area.
Let’s see if we can get a few ones up here to help her live her dream because here’s what Og says about your dream. I wanted to share this with you. He says, “I shall proceed with helping you to make your outlandish dreams come true.” People have already said they’re going to be buying the book. Here we go. They’re coming in now. We’re going to help you live that dream.
We have that piece of it. The other way that it’s changed is that Go for No! is a short fable. It’s 80 pages in it. It’s a story and it talks about the philosophy but there’s so many things that we share, Richard and I, on stage when we speak in our training programs, the things that we didn’t cover. Many little nuances. Some of them more philosophical, some of them you could say more on the psychology side, some more on the strategic side. There are so many nuances to Go for No! that we didn’t share.
Here’s what I know though. Even with that said, even though we share other things and we do it with new technology, the idea that people have a fear of asking and they have a fear of failure and rejection, that transcends technology because I hear from people who are in their twenties, who are nervous about getting on social media and getting rejected. It’s a different kind of rejection. It’s not even in person. You would think like, “Wow.“ What it is, is it’s the emotions. It’s not like how do you do it in terms of getting rejected at a door-to-door sale or at a coffee shop or online on Facebook. It’s the physical reaction of getting that rejection or even that fear of rejection.
Go for No! is a principle as I see it. It’s one of these weird things. I like to say it’s a philosophy, principle, and a strategy all at the same time. That philosophy will never change. The philosophy is having the courage to ask. That’s pretty much what it comes down to. If you were to say like, “What‘s the simplest way to describe Go for No?” It’s have the courage to ask when you have that opportunity. Instead of talking yourself out of getting a no, go for it, risk getting the no, and oftentimes you’ll get the yes.
I so love that because I have this great friend named Kevin Hall who wrote a book called Aspire: The Power of Words. He was on one of my other shows. We talked about words a lot. You said it. You said my word. My word for the year is ask. I thought, “What you said is so amazing because you tied it into a philosophy, a principle, and a strategy.” Maybe somebody will type that in for us, a philosophy, a principle, and a strategy. That’s an awesome thing that you bridge that because what Kevin taught me is that the origin of the word, with his linguists that helped him write the book, is Indo-European. It’s a strong channel that moves us forward. Prin, strong channel, PLE moving us forward. Yes, it’s going to help us get to where we want to go and live that outlandish dream of all of those people.
There are so many great comments coming up on the screen. Miriam is having a blast behind the scenes right here but I want to pause for a minute. She is Andrea Waltz. She’s the coauthor of Go for No!, an unbelievable book. Andrea, do you recommend people go to your website or do you like them to go to Amazon? What is your preference?
Wherever they’re shopping preference takes them is fine.
What I want to do is pause for a minute and share a quick commercial break because you said something that is fascinating. That is when I said, how do you make it relevant? You said whatever the medium of the day is. It is amazing that Facebook didn’t exist twenty years ago and yet 2.5 billion people are connected on it. What we did at the Og Mandino Company is say, “How do we help more people get more nos, get more yeses.” Let me share with you that this episode is brought to you by Cracking the Social Code powered by Habit Finder.
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Andrea, you and I were talking about this on the phone the other night. It blew me away because we have this cyber security ninja warrior that can’t be known to anybody. He was so impressed that Paul, The Habit Finder and the Og Mandino company built this step-by-step course, talked about these algorithms, and helping people connect to an ocean of people that comes to Facebook. I know you and I talked on the phone. I said, “How do you fill your day? Do you have a podcast?” You said, “No, I like being on podcasts like yours.“ I thought that was great. Tell us a little about how you go about that and how do you get in front of more people.
I have a pretty robust outbound strategy. A lot of it is on social media. It’s connecting with my ideal target customer. That’s somebody who has a sales team. It could be in direct sales. We’ve spoken it and done training for almost every company you can imagine. That’s one strategy. The rest is sharing value on all of the other social media platforms, whether it’s Instagram or Twitter. It’s funny to talk about technology. How different it’s changed over the years. My goal is to have people keep Go for No! on top of mind. I can’t tell you how many people over the years, Dan, had read the book and then they come back to me a few years later and say, “I forget that it’s an activity that I need to do. We get back in our old ways,” which I certainly do where I’ve heard something amazing. I go like, “I’m going to do this every day. This is a great thing, and then you get back in your old routines.”
It’s a great title. It’s a great book. Go for No! What’s fascinating about that is we ask. We do what we love and hopefully, you’ll love what you sell. No matter what you’re selling, you’ll continue to ask as I have. I am fortunate to talk about this incredible book that’s 52 years in the making. It is an honor to have everybody join us and share your comments. It’s so great to see people from all over the world. For those that join us each and every week, it’s great to have you. It’s great to welcome Andrea back. Let’s go back to something else you mentioned a little bit ago and that is you love personal development. When you reread the book, was there a scroll that stood out? You mentioned earlier the character, the beginning. Was there a scroll that you could turn to or share with our readers that struck you?
Yes. This is so important even from a Go for No! standpoint. This is an example of something that we don’t talk about as much in the book but it’s a key. It’s master your emotions. It’s full sex. It’s so good. That goes back to that idea of taking no personally and allowing people to have their opinions, allow them to say no. When you allow those nos, you’re open and then you allow the yeses instead of closing yourself off. “I love you. I won’t be the master of my emotions.”
To me, this is so amazing because I think back to the very first cassette tapes that I ever heard when I started my direct selling career was cassettes by the vice-president of Herbalife at the time. His name is Larry Thompson. They were called Millionaire Training. They’re iconic and there’ve been listened to by tens of thousands and millions of people. He had that attitude about that mastering your emotions. I love that you bring that up because I’m thinking about all the people that want more out of their sales career, they have to ask more. They have to go for no more. I love how you bring that up because I didn’t know how to handle that emotional thing of rejection as a nineteen–year–old. It was new for me to be in sales. I wanted the money. I didn’t realize it was going to take me seven years to go through this every day to get to the emotional level that I can trust. I wonder if you’ve talked about that word in Go For No! do you talk to your audiences about trusting that process?
Absolutely. We talk about getting off the yes-no emotional roller coaster is what we call it. That you get the yeses, you’re up here. You’re down when you get the no. It’s up, down, up, down emotional roller coaster, how you have to step off of that, and the tools that you have to use to do that. One of them, interestingly, is to celebrate your nos. I don’t know how much you’re familiar with the work from Trevor Moawad, but he’s a sports psychologist and he talks a lot about the research that’s done. That when you speak negatively, we think of the words in our head like, “I’m such a loser or I can’t believe this is happening,” to say like, “This is not going well.” To literally speak that when you get to know how detrimental that is.
A big part of stepping off that emotional roller coaster is to stop that internal dialogue and also make sure that you’re not speaking it, which is about ten times more powerful in the brain in terms of that negativity that it creates. To celebrate it and say, “I took action. I was very courageous. I got a no, it could have been a yes. The point is I did something.” That’s that progress that we talked about at the very beginning.
Isn’t that interesting that when you think about what Ben Franklin wrote, I’ve mentioned this many times on the show, you had the thirteen virtues? He did 64 years of his life going after those one virtue week. You think, “Og Mandino, where did he get the idea with the scrolls three times a day?“ I think if I recall W. Clement Stone even had a similar rhythm, which of course was Og’s boss, combining insurance corporation of America back in the day. That’s fantastic. The emotional roller coaster is real.
I’m glad you picked that scroll because he goes through it with you so brilliantly. Who hasn’t felt like you’ve got the Superman cape on some days when things are going so well and you’re making money and life is fabulous? He says, “I will recall my failures. If I overindulge, I will think of past hungers.” He gives you these terrific metaphors of successes and failures in the scroll. It’s brilliant. I’m glad you brought it up.
This is such a Go for No! philosophy as well. This is a persistence thing. He says, “No longer will I judge a man on one meeting. No longer will I fail to call again tomorrow on he who meets with me with hate.“ That’s something that we all have to remember is that sometimes you can hit somebody on a bad day. You don’t know what’s going on with them. God knows that’s true now more than ever. To remember, to try to master your own emotions, and have some compassion because we don’t know what’s going on with people and to say, “A no is a no and it’s a perfectly acceptable answer. Don’t get me wrong.“ It’s not about badgering people but to say, “I understand maybe it’s not something that you’re interested in. You mind if I check back with you to see if anything’s changed?” Keep the door open, being willing to follow up and remembering that even if this person is hateful or negative, that it’s about what’s going on with them and not anything that you did.
It’s interesting because I love people so much that I’m always interested. If I were to meet you and we’re at the beach or we’re at the park, I’d say, “You look like somebody that enjoys people. Who do you know that is looking for something that loves people like you do?” Very rarely is there a negative response to that because I think in general, most of us in our heart of hearts, we like helping people. Whether you’re in an elevator in the old days, pre–COVID, and you’re going up and down a hotel like we used to go to hotel meetings all the time or now, when we’re done here, I’m going to go for a walk down on Laguna Beach. You meet people and you’re able to say, “You look like somebody that enjoys people. I wonder who do you know that likes social media? Who do you know likes reading a book?”Even when it's about you, it's not about you. Click To Tweet
I think you’re right. People do want to help other people
You did do a help a lot of people on your book Go for No! If you’re new with this, I hope everybody will be able to reach out and get that. Let’s talk about your personal development journey. You mentioned Trevor Moawad. I love the idea because a friend of mine that wrote the book Big Ideas used to work at Franklin Covey, Craig Case. He talks about that very specific emotion of where you need to get quiet. You need to get still. You need to count your blessings. Incredible things can come forward if you’ll let that negative thing go. You can celebrate it but it’s time to move on and celebrate. I like what Og says, “You’re like the flowers. Today‘s full bloom of joy will fade and wither into despondency, yet I will remember of today‘s dead flower carries the seed of tomorrow’s bloom.” I love that. What are some of the things that you’re reading?
I read in different category. I also love business books, sales and marketing. It never gets old to me. Personal growth in general and interesting books. One of my favorites was a book called Big Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert. She was the woman behind the Eat Pray Love movie and book. There are all these different categories. One of my absolute favorite books and I alluded to it earlier, is called The Four Agreements. It’s probably my favorite personal growth, personal development book of all time. It was the book that got me through probably the big hurdles that I had in terms of being able to be a Go for No! type of person because one of The Four Agreements is to not take things personally. The other one is about communication, about communicating with integrity.
I love the idea of telling the truth faster. A woman that we worked with, she did Zig Ziglar’s events way back. Richard and I, when we were first building our speaking business, we flew to Dallas and we sat with her in her office and she helped us for two days, figure out how to craft our business and everything. That was her mantra. It was tell the truth faster. That idea of that communication and being as honest as possible. That’s why I said no is a perfectly acceptable answer. It’s never about not getting a no. It’s having that courage. The Four Agreements is so powerful. That’s one of my absolute favorites.
Can you remind me of the author, please?
That’s Don Miguel Ruiz.
It’s a book that has a lot of emotional appeal for a lot of people for sure. I’m glad you brought that up. It’s an awesome thing. It’s awesome to be in love with the journey as you are, the personal development. You have a publishing company as well. Is it you or your husband that does more of the writing?
Richard is the lead writer of the two of us. We do that intentionally. I love writing. We’ve learned that I’m a great cleanup person and he’s the one that puts it all on paper first. He’s gotten better over the years, Dan, because when we would first work together, he hands me ten pages. There’ll be a page where I read it and I X it out. It’s a huge red X and I go, “No.” He literally is like, “You’re literally killing me here.“ He was like, “That’s so painful.“ That’s what we do. That‘s the kind of team we are. Every book that we’ve ever written has pretty much gone through that process where he does the first draft, I go through, and completely destroy it, and then he rebuilds it again. That’s our process. We’ve learned how to be objective.
I feel for people bands. I understand how bands break up now doing this process because everybody has their vision. We’ve been very lucky because our visions are so integrated. We don’t start a project with one of us having an idea way out here, the other one having an idea way out there, and we’re constantly battling about our vision. The vision is the same. We are usually able to sell each other if someone has a slightly different idea on what the next thing should look like. One of the things that we did and this was through the success of Go for No!, is we took a few years off. I say off loosely because I love it so much. I’ve never really off but we took three years and wrote a paranormal suspense, fun fiction series, which was 2,000 pages. It was ten books that we wrote together and we’re still married. Obviously, we work together well.
I’m thrilled that you would make the time to be with us. I want to point out to our audience, it’s fascinating that your commitment to those quotes that you put on Twitter every day is what made me think to call you. I’ve known you for years. You’ve spoken to several of my team. A lot of my team have read your book. You’ve spoken at their events. Steven Moore down in Florida told me you spoke to him years ago and maybe it was Jupiter, Palm Beach or something. It’s interesting that you never know who you know or all of those comments and quotes that you put on Twitter. Finally I said, “Maybe I had to reach out to Andrea.”
That is so true. You never know. That’s why one of those keys is never make assumptions. You have no idea what’s going on. You think that you’re in an echo chamber and there’s nobody watching and there’s nobody listening but there are. Persistence, scroll three. I love Master Your Emotions but that persistence, ultimately that’s my favorite.Risk getting the no, and oftentimes you'll get the yes. Click To Tweet
It worked. That got us together here, Andrea. I’m so happy. I want to thank everybody for reading. I want to thank you. I hope everybody will keep putting those ones up on the screen over the months and years and buy Go for No! They can go to our Cracking the Social Code page as well that we mentioned earlier if they want to increase their reach into the world of social. There it is right there, HabitFinder.com/SocialVIP. It is great to have you. Continued success with the book. Perhaps, we’ll circle back and have you back on another time in the future, speak to other groups. It’s awesome. People loved it a lot. I look forward to sharing the journey with you and helping more people go for no.
You are doing a fantastic work, Dan. Thank you so much.
Thank you so very much. Everybody, have the greatest day of your life. She’s Andrea Waltz, the author of Go for No! See you next time, everybody.
- Go for No!
- Unlocking the Secrets of Retail Magic
- The Greatest Salesman
- Secrets of Closing the Sale
- Robert Hollis – Previous episode
- The Greatest Miracle
- Aspire: The Power of Words
- Big Ideas
- Big Magic
- Eat Pray Love
- The Four Agreements
- Master Your Emotions
About Andrea Waltz
Andrea Waltz is the co-founder of Courage Crafters, Inc. and co-author of the best-selling book, Go for No! Yes is the Destination, No is How You Get There.
Through speaking and online training and coaching course, Andrea teaches sellers in virtually every business and industry how to completely change the way they think about failure, rejection, and the word, no. Today, “Go for No” has become a well-known methodology in the world of sales and personal development, widely recognized as the singular best program of its kind.
The book, Go for No! Reached #1 on Amazon’s “Selling” list in 2010 and has remained in the top 50 of ‘Sales’ books for the last 10 years.